Q&A: Kinky Friedman

By Richard Skanse

October 2006

By his own admission, Richard Kinky “Big Dick” Friedman hasn’t written a new song in close to two decades. It’s been a few seasons since he last took the stage with a guitar, too — most notably for a run of dates with fellow raconteur Billy Joe Shaver back around the turn of the century; Friedman dragged his old friend along for the ride even though Shaver was staring down the barrel of double bypass heart surgery. Somehow they both made it back to Texas alive — Shaver to get his ticker fixed and to write more songs, and Kinky to do more of anything he could think of except songwriting. Someone, somewhere — a fan in Ireland, specifically — suggested off the cuff that he should run for public office. As it just so happened, Kinky had recently spent a long, dark night of the soul washed up on a beach somewhere in Mexico, during which he had one of those “moments of clarity” Samuel L. Jackson talked about in Pulp Fiction. He left on a mission to find a higher calling in life than just singing his decades-old satirical country songs, shilling salsa, penning uproarious mystery novels and knocking out the occasional column for Texas Monthly. Serendipitously, all this happened while it was coming up on time for Texans to elect a new governor. Kinky mulled it over a box of cigars or two and came to the conclusion that became the slogan that launched arguably the most colorful campaign for public office in Texas history: “Why the hell not?”

That’s the Cliff’s Notes version, anyway — bypassing, for brevity’s sake, the whole back story of Kinky’s origins as a Chicago-born, Texas-raised, child chess prodigy son of a UT professor who chased a three-year stint in the Peace Corps (Borneo) with a wild and reckless career as the frontman of the infamous Texas Jewboys — arguably the most colorful (and unapologetically politically incorrect) country band in Lone Star music history. We can breeze past the whole Kinky-as-novelist years, too (during which he wrote about a colorful, unapologetically politically incorrect Jewish Texas country star turned private eye named — what else? — Kinky Friedman). Ditto his one previous trip to the political rodeo, running on a whim for Justice of the Peace in Kerrville back in the early ’80s (he didn’t win).

All of this, needless to say, makes for a rippin’ good yarn, but it’s pretty irrelevant here in the fall of 2006 as far as Kinky’s concerned because Kinky, running to be Texas’ first independent governor since Sam Houston, has much more important things on his mind these days. Things like the immigration crisis, renewable energy, crime in Houston, Texas’ education system and, on the day in mid-September when we catch up with him, allegations of racism stemming from his frank assessment that the aforementioned crime situation in Houston could be linked with the influx of thousands of refugees into the city after Hurricane Katrina. Not all of the refugees, mind — just the ones that were criminally inclined even back in their hometown. (When more accusations of racism followed soon after, his campaign released a statement pointedly noting that, “While Rick Perry was cheerleading in college and [Democratic candidate] Chris Bell was being potty trained, Kinky Friedman was picketing segregated restaurants in Austin to integrate them.”) Meanwhile, while Perry and Bell take their swings at Kinky, the other major candidate in the race, fellow independent Carole Keeton Strayhorn (aka “One Tough Grandma”) still doesn’t seem to take him seriously as an opponent. The way Kinky and his grassroots supporters see it though, they’re all in for a hell of a surprise come November.

With all of the above on his plate of late, it’s little wonder that Kinky these days leaves the singing of his songs to other folks. Namely, the cast of Texas and honorary Texas mavericks assembled for Sustain Records’ new tribute album, Why the Hell Not?: The Songs of Kinky Friedman. Although some of the covers on the record were originally featured on Kinky’s first tribute album (1998’s Pearls in the Snow), it’s a remarkably cohesive collection that showcases not only the Kinkster’s most patently offensive material (“Get Your Biscuits in the Oven,” courtesy of Kevin Fowler), but also his legitimate claim to some the finest country songs to ever emerge out of the Lone Star State (“Sold American,” performed by Lyle Lovett). Other artists featured on Why the Hell Not? include Charlie Robison (“Wild Man From Borneo”), Dwight Yoakam (“Rapid City, South Dakota”), Jason Boland & the Stragglers (“The Gospel According to John”), Todd Snider (“They Ain’t Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore”), Bruce Robison and Kelly Willis (“Lady Yesterday”), Reckless Kelly with Ray Benson (“Homo Erectus”), Delbert McClinton (“Autograph”), and, of course, Kinky’s longtime friend and future energy czar, Willie Nelson (“Ride ’em Jewboy”). Kinky purists will still swear by his own 1973 debut, Sold American, but Why the Hell Not? serves as the perfect soundtrack to the Kinky-led Texas revolution of 2006. And as Kinky himself might say — although to our knowledge, we’re beating him to this particular punch line — it’s a lot better than Perry’s record. (You’re welcome, Kinky!)

Hello, Governor. How are you?

Hectic! It’s been a busy morning.

I’ll bet. I’ve been reading some of the headlines on you this morning. Are you ever surprised that you’re still able to offend people?

Which headlines? There’s a bunch of headlines.

Oh, specifically, about the fallout regarding your comments the other day in Houston, about linking the spike in crime there to some of the Katrina refugees left over.

Where was that, in the Austin paper?

Everywhere. I heard it on the radio this morning, and just surfing the Web.

This week I’ve been called a flip-flopper, a racist, and, worst of all, a politician. None of which is true.

And a hardline conservative, too!

And a hardline conservative. Yeah, I’m a hardline conservative. I guess that’s why Molly Ivins, Liz Carpenter and Jim Hightower are supporting me. It must be. That’s why they’d support a racist. Nah, I think the problem is that many of these politicians are so politically correct that they just want to ignore the situation. Houston cops are practically begging for help. I don’t fault Perry for inviting the refugees over at all. I fault him for inviting them over to somebody else’s house, and not picking up the tab. Houston needs cops on the street, and it needs them right now. And we’ve got the money, Richard. We’ve got plenty of money. We’ve got a surplus of $12 or $13 billion. Nobody knows for sure how much, it seems, but there’s enough money to send a $100 million to put a thousand cops on the street.

I do want to talk to you more about your campaign, but I wanted to start off covering your songs and this new tribute record a little, seeing as how I’m talking to you for LoneStarMusic.com. You’re the artist of the month for October.

Is that like the employee of the month?

Exactly. They’ll be sending you a plaque. Anyway, I’ve always been a fan of your classic Sold American album, and personally think that’s where any would-be Kinky fan should start. But if someone had to choose between that album, the new tribute album, Why the Hell Not?, or even the new anthology that just came out [Last of the Jewish Cowboys: The Best of Kinky Friedman, Shout Factory] … which of the three would you recommend?

I think Lyle Lovett’s “Sold American” is about as good as it gets. He really does that great on Why the Hell Not? I haven’t heard the other one, what’s it called? “The Last Jewish Cowboy”? I guess they didn’t consider it important to send it to me.

I’m sure it’s in the mail.

It must be. But the other one I have heard, and there’s some great stuff on there. Some of the young guys’ stuff is terrific. “They Ain’t Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore,” I really like what Todd did to that one. And [Jason Boland’s] “The Gospel According to John” … there’s some really good cuts on there. And they grow on you the more you hear them. Another one I really like on there is “Get Your Biscuits in the Oven” … even that motherfucker, that’s a hard one to do and not go into a coma listening to it! But Kevin Fowler really did it. He got it.

Do you get any veto power when it comes to these tribute albums? Like, “I don’t want that person singing that song” and such?

No, not really. I mean, these guys putting it out — Sustain Records — are my friends. But they pretty much went after who ever they wanted. Their idea is to get it to a younger audience, to people who’ve never heard it.

A whole new generation to piss off.

Or a whole new generation to entertain.

When people talk about your songs, the ones that always get mentioned are ones like “Get Your Biscuits in the Oven” and “Asshole From El Paso” and “They Ain’t Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore” — the ones that are obviously the most controversial or seemingly politically incorrect. But do you ever get annoyed that you don’t get more credit as a serious songwriter, for things like “Sold American,” instead of just the novelty stuff?

You know, many years ago I did, but then I just stopped caring. Like Lowell George told me when he got a gold record: he said it came 10 minutes too late to make any difference. But I mean, it’s a real privilege to have a tribute album like this. If this album goes over with young folks, that will really be amazing. I mean it’ll prove that the songs are there. If they like it, then we really have done something.

When was the last time you wrote a new song?

A long time ago. Fifteen years ago, maybe 20.

Are you done with that?

I think so. I think I’ve lost the touch. It takes something to write really good songs. You can keep writing them, but it takes something to … I mean, Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson are such great artists that they could write a mediocre song and make it a hit. But I can’t think of too many that have been writing for that long that are still able to do it. Billy Joe Shaver’s another one, he’s still writing poetry. But not many. You’ve got to be miserable.

Politics don’t make you miserable?

No! I feel rejuvenated by this whole process. I feel pretty inspired. The people are inspiring me, and I hope that I’m inspiring some of the young people politically.

Your campaign seems to be doing really well with young people, but I was curious how you’re doing with certain older voters. For instance, my dad owns two small businesses in Buda, and my mom’s a high school teacher in Austin. I think a lot of the things on your platform would appeal to them, in theory, but they’re both pretty straight-laced, conservative Republicans who are probably pretty suspicious of a candidate named Kinky. How do you reach people like that?

Well, I think we’re going to reach most of them, and I think people are going to be very surprised. Perry’s down to like, 30 or 29 points on the latest Zogby poll, and that’s death. He’s not going to rise like a phoenix now — somebody’s going to overtake him. And the truth is, all of the votes out there that could come in big time are the “unlikely” voters. People like me who did not vote for Perry or Sanchez. But I’m coming back, and I’m not coming back because I think we need more Rick Perry. Democrats are the same way. They’ll get what they’ll get from the likely voters, but they won’t get much of this bunch. And this is the majority, 71 percent. That’s how Jesse Ventura [wrestler turned Minnesota governor] won. He got 85 percent of the unlikely voters, the new voters — the kids and people who are disgusted with politics. And most Republicans, too… I mean, I’d be surprised if your parents are happy with Perry. Because he managed to … I don’t know. He raised people’s taxes, he’s done nothing about immigration. He’s done really nothing. There’s my joke about showing my friend around Austin. He said, “Boy, that’s a beautiful statue of Rick Perry y’all put up there.” I said, “That is Rick Perry.”

One of the first slogans of your campaign was, “How hard can it be?” Has this race proven to be a lot harder than you thought it would be? Or are you just kind of taking it in stride?

Yeah, I’m taking it in stride. It hasn’t gotten harder. The people are great. The old guy in overalls, who hugged me and said, “God bless you, Kinky, you’re one of us.” The kid raising his beer can in the parking lot. Those kind of people, sometimes that’s all that keeps you going, and we’re getting a lot of that right now. We’re not getting people who are saying, “Are you serious?” We’re getting people who are saying, “Thank you for what you’re doing.” And we didn’t create that situation, the politicians did. The fact is we need a good shepherd now, not a politician.

Do you feel like you’d be ready to take the wheel tomorrow if you had to?

Absolutely. I could have taken it yesterday. And things will be much, much better for Texas — I don’t know about for Kinky, but better for Texas — when we win this, and I firmly believe we’re going to win.

Do you think the fact that some of your opponents still don’t take you — or even your platform — seriously gives you an edge in this race?

Well, yeah. And I think they’re making a mistake. But I think Perry knows — that’s why he’s talked about me twice in the last week, for the first time in the whole campaign. He put out a press release about what a flip-flopper I was. He said “If Kinky did his homework, he’d know that we can’t abolish the small business tax.” But I don’t know that. I’m very sure we can. And the way we do it is we abolish Governor Perry, and then Governor Kinky will abolish the small business tax.

Are you chomping at the bit to get to that debate in October?

Well, I’m just going to play it by ear. As Jesse says, just be yourself, that way you never have to remember who you are. I think people already are very ready for a change, there’s no question about that. And that’s Republicans, too. They’re fed up with funds from the horny toad license plates and the cat and dog license plates going to a general fund instead of to the state parks and the animals, as we found out last week. They’re fed up with these billboards all over the state talking about how much the lottery has done for Texas. Have you seen those?

I have not, not yet.

They’re everywhere. Travel from one city to another, you’ll see them. It’s a multi-million dollar campaign, congratulating the state lottery for giving $8 billion to education over the last eight years. And that’s just a lie. That’s not true. In Georgia, every kid with a B average or better in high school goes to college for free, thanks to the Georgia lottery. And they don’t have billboards everywhere.

Before you ever considered running yourself, were you ever a friend or acquaintance of Perry’s, like you have been with George W. Bush and Bill Clinton?

I’ve met him twice. I like him, he’s fine. This isn’t Kinky vs. Perry, it’s Kinky vs. apathy.

What about Carole Keeton Strayhorn? When she hopped off the Republican ticket to run as an independent herself — saving her from having to face Perry in the primaries — did you see that as a sign of weakness on her part at the time, or did you think, “Aw nuts, here we go …”?

I like all of them, actually. I like her, I like Bell, and I don’t dislike Rick. But the three of them have been in politics for 89 years. Eighty. Fucking. Nine. Years. And that, for three little people, is not what the founding fathers wanted America to be. That’s why I’m running.

There’s already talk out there about Kinky for president. What are your thoughts on that?

That’s president of a local mental hospital. The Bandera Home for the Bewildered. No. That’s too hard, anyways. But governor’s a perfect job. Molly Ivins is right: it’s a largely ceremonial position. And what you can do would be done with the bully pulpit anyway. That’s the way JFK got a man on the moon, and that’s the way we can fix education, and help the environment, fix immigration and cut down on crime. We can do all that — most of it — through the bully pulpit and spiritual lifting. Some of it will require working with the legislature, but they’re not the visionary leaders who are going to take us to the next step.

What’s the very first thing you plan on doing if you get elected?

To paraphrase Warren Zevon, I’ll sleep when I’m governor! And, I think we could open the Indian casinos on day one. And we’ll send the National Guard to the border. The things the governor can do without the legislature, we’ll do those.

Can you really open casinos that quickly?

No, but you can open the Indian casinos. You can’t legalize gambling that quickly, but Pataki in New York and Schumer got together and they transferred tribal lands from one side of the state to the other, to the Catskills, and successfully circumvented legislature —and the people, I might say — that way. We have to do that. We have to legalize casino gambling, because money is pouring out of here all the time by the billions to five other states. If we reversed the flow, we would have a permanent revenue stream that could pay for education every year. That’s just logical. And you could have it be a local option: if you don’t want it in Buda, you vote it out and it wouldn’t have to be there. But it would be in places like Corpus and Galveston where it would save the public schools. And be a huge economic boon for tourism.

What is the logic offered by opponents to casino gambling who at the same time support the lottery?

There is no logic. Some of the Christian lobbyists who’ve taken money to keep gambling out of Texas, they’ve taken it from Louisiana gamblers. I don’t know what Jesus would have thought of that. But in general, they’re Rick Perry’s base, and they don’t approve of gambling. I think some of them are hypocritical and they go out of state to gamble. I know that every time I go to Las Vegas, I run into nothing but Texans. Vegas would take a huge hit if we legalize casino gambling. I mean, as I’ve said — we invented Texas Hold ’Em, and we can’t even play it here. This is a real common sense thing. You could argue all day about the bad side of gambling, but I’m talking about creating new revenue here. I’m not talking about giving the teachers a $1,500 court-ordered crumb like Perry and the legislature did. I’m talking about taking on the problem head-on, and solving it.

You’ve talked a lot about your energy plan too, and how you’d have Willie Nelson on board to help you with that — pushing biodiesel and such. Is he really prepared to handle that? How are you going to keep him off the road?

He was ready two days ago. In fact, he called me, and I couldn’t really hear his voice, because he was speaking so softly, so I said, “Who? Who?” Finally he said, “Willie. Nelson. Remember me? ‘On the road again …’?” What Willie has the unique ability to do, as well as being the greatest natural resource we have in Texas, is he’s got clout with the farmers. So we can have farmers biodiesel and ethanol co-ops all over the state pretty quickly. That’s how you get the stuff. Right now, everybody sees the logic of it, but you can’t find it regularly. With the co-ops, you could get biodiesel any place. Then I’d put the 35,000 school buses on biodiesel, and the state fleet on biodiesel, and before you know it, believe me, prices are going to drop at the pumps in Texas through simple supply and demand. And at that point, we’ll lead the American parade instead of following it. That would be great, and that is a reachable star. Now, clean government is harder than clean energy. That’s the dream — to get the politicians out of politics.

Will you concede that, even though your campaign has had a lot of great slogans, that you’ve yet to pull anything out of your hat as funny as Perry’s own “Adios, mofo!”?

Yeah, that’s the best.

You really can’t top that.

You can’t. You just can’t. And that coming from such a religious man is what’s really jarring. But you know, may the god of your choice bless you.

Speaking of jarring, does that Kink Friedman talking action figure you sell on your Web site ever kind of freak you out?

No. It does my work for me, Richard. It’s allows me to not have to be in all the places I can’t be.

Am I talking to one now?

Yes. Actually, this interview is being conducted by a talking action figure. A sophisticated one, but nonetheless … that’s pretty much what I’ve become. It’s kind of tough not to become one on the campaign. The other hard thing is to tell the truth and be in politics. That is really very, very, very difficult. I don’t know if anybody can stay in politics and tell the truth. I’m just constantly surprised, you know? I mean, I’ve been to Houston many times, I know what the situation is down there. The fact that some of the elected officials down there would prefer to call me a racist rather than deal with a situation where people can’t even go outside in the daytime in neighborhoods where the police are putting up billboards saying, “This area’s not safe.” I don’t get it. And I just don’t understand, because we have all the money in the world — it’s not a question of money right now. A guy should challenge Perry on that. Send a hundred million bucks down to Houston law enforcement; get a thousand cops on the street. Do it.

One of your other policies that attracted some controversy was you plan to confront the illegal immigration problem by hiring … Five Mexican generals.

Yeah, to watch the border and discourage immigration from the Mexican side. I know people thought that was a joke, but I kinda thought it was a good idea. [In a nutshell, Kinky’s “Five Mexican Generals” plan would set up trust funds for Mexican generals to police their side of the border, with money taken out of the fund for every illegal to slip past their watch.]

Well, it’s a question of how much imagination you have. Clearly it would work on the Mexican side, and then you’d have the National Guard on our side. I still stand by the idea. I think it’s exactly what Dell Computer does when they’re faced with the trouble of hackers. They don’t call their local rabbi or priest, and they don’t call law enforcement — they find the baddest hackers they can find, and turn them. And that’s how they catch other hackers.

In the event that you don’t win this election, do you think you’ll at least get a good book out of all of this?

No, I think I’ll retire in a petulant snit, just like I promised. And I won’t run again. This is the last chance to vote for somebody.

Did you say that back when you ran for Justice of the Peace?

No. That was in the early days — that was never very serious. Everybody’s got to lose once. George W. lost his first race. The Justice of the Peace thing was a whole different matter. But this campaign is really striking a chord across the state. This one’s winnable. Especially if the turnout’s big — like it’s been, by the way, so far this year in Connecticut and Alaska. I know in the Lamont/Lieberman race, 50 percent more people turned out than they thought would. If we can get even 20 percent more, 15 percent more people to vote this time than last time, then I’m governor. You’re talking to the governor. It’s that simple. I mean, it’s not easy, but a big turnout guarantees a win for us. And if it’s a turnout like last time, then it’s a guaranteed win for Perry. Or maybe Bell or Grandma, but I don’t see how they could really beat Perry with a low turnout.

Well, I know you’re busy, so I’ve just got one more quick and irreverent, but I also think important, question to ask you. In the inevitable event of a Cowboys vs. Texans Super Bowl, which team would get the Kinky vote?

Wow. You know, I would be very conflicted by that, because I was never a Cowboys fan when they were doing well, but I am now. But Houston would be the underdog, and I grew up in Houston, so I’ll take Houston. I’ll give you an honest answer. That said — I love what T.O. [Terrell Owens] is doing to the Cowboys. He’s going to destroy the whole fucking team in about two more games, right? He’ll have all the fans and coaches and other players at each other’s throats, and he just keeps smiling! It’s amazing. You know, he might make good lieutenant governor. Maybe I should talk to him.

Maybe that could help you win back the “Black vote.”

Yeah. You know, one of the most racist things I’ve heard, that politicians often tell me, is, “Kinky, you going after the Blacks? Are you going after the Hispanics?” I’m the only candidate who is not doing that. I’m not going after the Blacks or the Hispanics or the Soccer Moms. We’re going after the people. Telling the truth, and we’ll keep one foot in the stirrup.

That sounds like a good note to end on. But you got anything else?

Yeah, I gotta tell you, as tribute albums go, this one ain’t bad. They usually really suck. But this one’s got some legs.

I agree. But I also thought that first Kinky tribute album from a few years back, Pearls in the Snow, was pretty good, too.

Yeah, but that one was for older people. And it was a little bit over done, by the time you got to track number 19. A little bit of Kinky goes a long way! That’s why I say, never re-elect anybody. Four years from now, I’ll be drinking tequila and smoking cigars with Willie, and Texas will be a lot better for it.